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	<title>Comments on: When The Roles Are Reversed</title>
	<link>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1368</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 May 2006 15:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1368</guid>
					<description>Derek - I'm not claiming there are NO cases where the media misjudges a story, or fails to give it a fair balance against the way similar stories were handled in years past. Of course that happens, and of course the media has biases. The media has an apparent bias toward siding with those who are weaker, less powerful or less fortunate (seems like a good Christian attitude to me).

The original exmaples on which you hung the thesis of your article are not those kinds of stories. The Hehman case is NOT like the Sheppard case or the Byrd case.

The Howard Beach case is a better comparison, but still not perfect. The motive there was pure racism, and it was clear the intension was to beat the life out of those three men. The Hehman case was motivated by theft, from what I read.

I don't know how prevalent violence against gays is, but I don't know of any case of gay assault as drastic as Matthew Sheppard's murder. That's why it appropriately became a national news story.

I'm not making an argument that any one murder is more or less horrific or sad or important than any other murder. They are all awful. But the news media is more than a list of the events of the day. The news media has to find and focus on stories that have implications beyond that one event. They are looking for stories that propel a conversation about the kind of society we live in. THAT is why murders with a political point or a purely racial motive rise into larger news. The Hehman case is not that kind of story.

Surely the media breaks its own rules, and some stories become big news for no particular reason, other than the fact that some big news organization chose to focus on it. The runaway bride story was pointless, but CNN loved it. Natalee Holloway died in Aruba, and Fox News loves the story (apparently because she was a pretty blonde). If she were a black homeless girl would they have given her the same attention?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Derek &#8211; I&#8217;m not claiming there are NO cases where the media misjudges a story, or fails to give it a fair balance against the way similar stories were handled in years past. Of course that happens, and of course the media has biases. The media has an apparent bias toward siding with those who are weaker, less powerful or less fortunate (seems like a good Christian attitude to me).</p>
<p>The original exmaples on which you hung the thesis of your article are not those kinds of stories. The Hehman case is <span class="caps">NOT</span> like the Sheppard case or the Byrd case.</p>
<p>The Howard Beach case is a better comparison, but still not perfect. The motive there was pure racism, and it was clear the intension was to beat the life out of those three men. The Hehman case was motivated by theft, from what I read.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how prevalent violence against gays is, but I don&#8217;t know of any case of gay assault as drastic as Matthew Sheppard&#8217;s murder. That&#8217;s why it appropriately became a national news story.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not making an argument that any one murder is more or less horrific or sad or important than any other murder. They are all awful. But the news media is more than a list of the events of the day. The news media has to find and focus on stories that have implications beyond that one event. They are looking for stories that propel a conversation about the kind of society we live in. <span class="caps">THAT</span> is why murders with a political point or a purely racial motive rise into larger news. The Hehman case is not that kind of story.</p>
<p>Surely the media breaks its own rules, and some stories become big news for no particular reason, other than the fact that some big news organization chose to focus on it. The runaway bride story was pointless, but <span class="caps">CNN</span> loved it. Natalee Holloway died in Aruba, and Fox News loves the story (apparently because she was a pretty blonde). If she were a black homeless girl would they have given her the same attention?</p>
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		<title>by: Derek</title>
		<link>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1364</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 19:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1364</guid>
					<description>Incidentally, I just recently happened across the name of Ken Tillery.

I'll quote from wikipedia here: 

"Ken Tillery was a white man who was murdered in Jasper, Texas in April of 2002. On the night of his murder, Tillery was walking down a road in Jasper when three men in a truck offered him a ride. When Tillery refused, the three men kidnapped Tillery and took him to a remote location outside Jasper. Once the truck stopped, Tillery jumped out and tried to flee but before he could get away, the three men caught up to him, beat him up and _started to run over him with their truck. Tillery finally died after being dragged to death under the truck's undercarriage_."

Tillery was white, his murderers were black.  His story ran in all of 22 newspapers.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, I just recently happened across the name of Ken Tillery.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll quote from wikipedia here:</p>
<p>&#8220;Ken Tillery was a white man who was murdered in Jasper, Texas in April of 2002. On the night of his murder, Tillery was walking down a road in Jasper when three men in a truck offered him a ride. When Tillery refused, the three men kidnapped Tillery and took him to a remote location outside Jasper. Once the truck stopped, Tillery jumped out and tried to flee but before he could get away, the three men caught up to him, beat him up and <em>started to run over him with their truck. Tillery finally died after being dragged to death under the truck&#8217;s undercarriage</em>.&#8221;</p>
<p>Tillery was white, his murderers were black.  His story ran in all of 22 newspapers.</p>
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		<title>by: Derek</title>
		<link>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1363</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 19:55:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1363</guid>
					<description>_The Hehman case just doesn’t register as important or enlightening news._

Don't murders count as important news events? 

_As I said, it was a traffic accident. How many black men do you remember reading about being killed in traffic._

Actually, something similar to the John Hehman murder took place near the same vicinity in 1986, when a man who was being chased by a gang ran into a street and was killed by traffic.  The only difference?  The victim in that case was black--the gang that was chasing him was white.  &lt;a href="http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&#38;lr=&#38;ie=ISO-8859-1&#38;safe=off&#38;c2coff=1&#38;cof=AWFID%3A816d74a6ad07d72e%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmichellemalkin.com%2Fgraphics%2Fmm_logo.gif%3BLH%3A124%3BLW%3A750%3BBGC%3A%23FFFFFF%3BT%3A%23000000%3BLC%3A%230000CC%3BVLC%3A%230000CC%3BALC%3A%230000CC%3BGALT%3A%23008000%3BGFNT%3A%23000000%3BGIMP%3A%23000000%3BDIV%3A%230000CC%3BLBGC%3A%23FFFFFF%3BAH%3Acenter%3B&#38;domains=michellemalkin.com&#38;q=1986+Howard+Beach+murder&#38;btnG=Search&#38;sitesearch=" rel="nofollow"&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; are the Google results for "1986 Howard Beach murder".  What kind of attention did that event receive?  Thousands of protestors, national
news coverage, and eventually a tv movie based off the events.

_But their race had little to do with it. According to the news reports, the rowdy bunch of kids were neighborhood thugs, harassing pedestrians, vandalizing businesses. They only noticed Hehman so that they could steal his iPod, and just because someone called him a white boy doesn’t mean this was a hate crime._

I never said this was a hate crime.  I don't believe in categorizing crimes as "hate crimes" or non hate crimes.  That's not the point of this article.

Do you deny my premise that the national media selectively reports crime-related events on the basis of race and other factors (i.e., sexual orientation)?

Re: Dirkhising.  (For those who want to read about the murder, you can find out about it &lt;a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29026" rel="nofollow"&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt;  Just as a warning, the article contains very graphic descriptions.)

_Which brings us to the awful death of Jesse Dirkhising. No question this was an unusually horrific death. But this murder was not motivated by who Jesse was or what he represented.  In this case, he was simply a sexual object to the killers. They didn’t kill him to make a political point or to punish him for who he was. They were simply twisted sexual predators._

_The fact that they were homosexual is barely relevant to the story. Sadly, children are raped and killed by sexual predators – both homosexual and heterosexual – daily._

Just out of curiosity then--if we use your standard of "this isn't a big news event because it happens all the time"--does this mean that violence against gays is extremely rare?  Because if it happened all the time, then surely Matthew Shepard would not have become a national news story, correct?

You earlier say that Shepard's and Byrd's "treatment wasn’t ordinary or run-of-the-mill."  I don't doubt these incidents happen elsewhere, but neither was Jesse Dirkhising's.  I see the distinction you're trying to make, but I strongly disagree with it.  On what basis do you come to the conclusion that murders committed by those making a political point or punishing a person for who they are are worse than murders committed by those engaging in satisfying their own perverted sexual desires?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The Hehman case just doesn&#8217;t register as important or enlightening news.</em></p>
<p>Don&#8217;t murders count as important news events?</p>
<p><em>As I said, it was a traffic accident. How many black men do you remember reading about being killed in traffic.</em></p>
<p>Actually, something similar to the John Hehman murder took place near the same vicinity in 1986, when a man who was being chased by a gang ran into a street and was killed by traffic.  The only difference?  The victim in that case was black&#8212;the gang that was chasing him was white.  <a href="http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&#038;lr=&#038;ie=ISO-8859-1&#038;safe=off&#038;c2coff=1&#038;cof=AWFID%3A816d74a6ad07d72e%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmichellemalkin.com%2Fgraphics%2Fmm_logo.gif%3BLH%3A124%3BLW%3A750%3BBGC%3A%23FFFFFF%3BT%3A%23000000%3BLC%3A%230000CC%3BVLC%3A%230000CC%3BALC%3A%230000CC%3BGALT%3A%23008000%3BGFNT%3A%23000000%3BGIMP%3A%23000000%3BDIV%3A%230000CC%3BLBGC%3A%23FFFFFF%3BAH%3Acenter%3B&#038;domains=michellemalkin.com&#038;q=1986+Howard+Beach+murder&#038;btnG=Search&#038;sitesearch=" rel="nofollow">Here</a> are the Google results for &#8220;1986 Howard Beach murder&#8221;.  What kind of attention did that event receive?  Thousands of protestors, national<br />
news coverage, and eventually a tv movie based off the events.</p>
<p><em>But their race had little to do with it. According to the news reports, the rowdy bunch of kids were neighborhood thugs, harassing pedestrians, vandalizing businesses. They only noticed Hehman so that they could steal his iPod, and just because someone called him a white boy doesn&#8217;t mean this was a hate crime.</em></p>
<p>I never said this was a hate crime.  I don&#8217;t believe in categorizing crimes as &#8220;hate crimes&#8221; or non hate crimes.  That&#8217;s not the point of this article.</p>
<p>Do you deny my premise that the national media selectively reports crime-related events on the basis of race and other factors (i.e., sexual orientation)?</p>
<p>Re: Dirkhising.  (For those who want to read about the murder, you can find out about it <a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29026" rel="nofollow">here.</a>  Just as a warning, the article contains very graphic descriptions.)</p>
<p><em>Which brings us to the awful death of Jesse Dirkhising. No question this was an unusually horrific death. But this murder was not motivated by who Jesse was or what he represented.  In this case, he was simply a sexual object to the killers. They didn&#8217;t kill him to make a political point or to punish him for who he was. They were simply twisted sexual predators.</em></p>
<p><em>The fact that they were homosexual is barely relevant to the story. Sadly, children are raped and killed by sexual predators &#8211; both homosexual and heterosexual &#8211; daily.</em></p>
<p>Just out of curiosity then&#8212;if we use your standard of &#8220;this isn&#8217;t a big news event because it happens all the time&#8221;&#8212;does this mean that violence against gays is extremely rare?  Because if it happened all the time, then surely Matthew Shepard would not have become a national news story, correct?</p>
<p>You earlier say that Shepard&#8217;s and Byrd&#8217;s &#8220;treatment wasn&#8217;t ordinary or run-of-the-mill.&#8221;  I don&#8217;t doubt these incidents happen elsewhere, but neither was Jesse Dirkhising&#8217;s.  I see the distinction you&#8217;re trying to make, but I strongly disagree with it.  On what basis do you come to the conclusion that murders committed by those making a political point or punishing a person for who they are are worse than murders committed by those engaging in satisfying their own perverted sexual desires?</p>
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		<title>by: Robert Cammiso</title>
		<link>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1346</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 May 2006 02:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1346</guid>
					<description>On April 4th, J.B. Hehman, 20, a prolific and articulate member of our Wired New York Community (posting as “TLOZ Link5”) and a Junior at NYU, died from injuries he received three days earlier when he was assaulted while walking on East 125th Street in Harlem. Read more at http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8889

The forum community has reacted to this tragedy by partnering with Bette Midler’s non-profit New York Restoration Project (NYRP) to execute a two-pronged plan of action:

1) On May 13th, volunteers will converge at Maggie’s Garden (located at 149th Street and Broadway in Harlem), an NYRP community garden in Manhattan for a community service project to be performed in J.B. Hehman’s memory. Volunteers
are needed. Read more at http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8967

2) Our members have also embarked on a fund drive to raise $10,000 to create the J.B. Hehman Endowment for Environmental Education. This endowment will fund earth science programs in community parks and gardens for under-served and
minority children in Upper Manhattan. 

No contribution is too small and all are greatly appreciated. For further information on these efforts and how you can help or donate please visit: 
http://www.wirednewyork.com/jb/memorial/ or
http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=95940

As JB Hehman posted in our forum: "If you love the place you live, love it with the same passion that so many New Yorkers do, then you'll learn to tolerate its imperfections if it hasn't been ingrained in you already. Be to its virtues very kind, but be to its faults a little blind."

Help us remember and celebrate J.B. Hehman’s contributions to our community!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On April 4th, J.B. Hehman, 20, a prolific and articulate member of our Wired New York Community (posting as &#8220;TLOZ Link5&#8221;) and a Junior at <span class="caps">NYU</span>, died from injuries he received three days earlier when he was assaulted while walking on East 125th Street in Harlem. Read more at <a href='http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8889' rel='nofollow'>http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8889</a></p>
<p>The forum community has reacted to this tragedy by partnering with Bette Midler&#8217;s non-profit New York Restoration Project (NYRP) to execute a two-pronged plan of action:</p>
<p>1) On May 13th, volunteers will converge at Maggie&#8217;s Garden (located at 149th Street and Broadway in Harlem), an <span class="caps">NYRP</span> community garden in Manhattan for a community service project to be performed in J.B. Hehman&#8217;s memory. Volunteers<br />
are needed. Read more at <a href='http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8967' rel='nofollow'>http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8967</a></p>
<p>2) Our members have also embarked on a fund drive to raise $10,000 to create the J.B. Hehman Endowment for Environmental Education. This endowment will fund earth science programs in community parks and gardens for under-served and<br />
minority children in Upper Manhattan.</p>
<p>No contribution is too small and all are greatly appreciated. For further information on these efforts and how you can help or donate please visit:<br />
<a href='http://www.wirednewyork.com/jb/memorial/' rel='nofollow'>http://www.wirednewyork.com/jb/memorial/</a> or<br />
<a href='http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=95940' rel='nofollow'>http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=95940</a></p>
<p>As <span class="caps">JB </span>Hehman posted in our forum: &#8220;If you love the place you live, love it with the same passion that so many New Yorkers do, then you&#8217;ll learn to tolerate its imperfections if it hasn&#8217;t been ingrained in you already. Be to its virtues very kind, but be to its faults a little blind.&#8221;</p>
<p>Help us remember and celebrate J.B. Hehman&#8217;s contributions to our community!</p>
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		<title>by: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1342</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 May 2006 00:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1342</guid>
					<description>(And good luck on your finals)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(And good luck on your finals)</p>
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		<title>by: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1341</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 May 2006 00:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1341</guid>
					<description>The Hehman case just doesn't register as important or enlightening news. As I said, it was a traffic accident. How many black men do you remember reading about being killed in traffic. It has nothing to do with race, it's just not a terribly interesting story. THAT is why it didn't get a lot of attention in the media.

You might argue that it is a racial story because a "black gang" was chasing him. But their race had little to do with it. According to the news reports, the rowdy bunch of kids were neighborhood thugs, harassing pedestrians, vandalizing businesses. They only noticed Hehman so that they could steal his iPod, and just because someone called him a white boy doesn't mean this was a hate crime.

This was a crime, certainly. Thugs deserve to be punished. It's very sad that Hehman was accidentally killed in the process. But thousands of people are mugged every day in this country, and it hardly counts as national news.

In contrast, James Byrd and Matthew Shepard were singled out entirely because of their race/orientation, because they were outsiders. Their treatment wasn't ordinary or run-of-the-mill. They were tortured expressly to be made an example of, because of who they were and what they represented.

Which brings us to the awful death of Jesse Dirkhising. No question this was an unusually horrific death. But this murder was not motivated by who Jesse was or what he represented. In this case, he was simply a sexual object to the killers. They didn't kill him to make a political point or to punish him for who he was. They were simply twisted sexual predators.

The fact that they were homosexual is barely relevant to the story. Sadly, children are raped and killed by sexual predators - both homosexual and heterosexual - daily. 

I don't think these stories were transcendant news events the way the Byrd and Sheppard murders were. Can you see the distinction I'm making?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Hehman case just doesn&#8217;t register as important or enlightening news. As I said, it was a traffic accident. How many black men do you remember reading about being killed in traffic. It has nothing to do with race, it&#8217;s just not a terribly interesting story. <span class="caps">THAT</span> is why it didn&#8217;t get a lot of attention in the media.</p>
<p>You might argue that it is a racial story because a &#8220;black gang&#8221; was chasing him. But their race had little to do with it. According to the news reports, the rowdy bunch of kids were neighborhood thugs, harassing pedestrians, vandalizing businesses. They only noticed Hehman so that they could steal his iPod, and just because someone called him a white boy doesn&#8217;t mean this was a hate crime.</p>
<p>This was a crime, certainly. Thugs deserve to be punished. It&#8217;s very sad that Hehman was accidentally killed in the process. But thousands of people are mugged every day in this country, and it hardly counts as national news.</p>
<p>In contrast, James Byrd and Matthew Shepard were singled out entirely because of their race/orientation, because they were outsiders. Their treatment wasn&#8217;t ordinary or run-of-the-mill. They were tortured expressly to be made an example of, because of who they were and what they represented.</p>
<p>Which brings us to the awful death of Jesse Dirkhising. No question this was an unusually horrific death. But this murder was not motivated by who Jesse was or what he represented. In this case, he was simply a sexual object to the killers. They didn&#8217;t kill him to make a political point or to punish him for who he was. They were simply twisted sexual predators.</p>
<p>The fact that they were homosexual is barely relevant to the story. Sadly, children are raped and killed by sexual predators &#8211; both homosexual and heterosexual &#8211; daily.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think these stories were transcendant news events the way the Byrd and Sheppard murders were. Can you see the distinction I&#8217;m making?</p>
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		<title>by: Derek</title>
		<link>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1340</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 May 2006 16:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1340</guid>
					<description>_What evidence are you presenting to make the point that this story was buried on the basis of race?_

The stories themselves.  If you have another explanation for the difference in the way the national media treats these crimes, I would welcome hearing it.  Incidentally, I am still interested in hearing how the murder of Dirkising is “not the same.”

I'll have another response coming in the 'snowball' thread in a day or two.  I apologize for the slow responses, but I'm a bit busy right now with finals and everything coming up.  I hope you understand.
: )


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>What evidence are you presenting to make the point that this story was buried on the basis of race?</em></p>
<p>The stories themselves.  If you have another explanation for the difference in the way the national media treats these crimes, I would welcome hearing it.  Incidentally, I am still interested in hearing how the murder of Dirkising is &#8220;not the same.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have another response coming in the &#8216;snowball&#8217; thread in a day or two.  I apologize for the slow responses, but I&#8217;m a bit busy right now with finals and everything coming up.  I hope you understand.<br />
: )</p>
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		<title>by: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1336</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Apr 2006 20:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/when-the-roles-are-reversed#comment-1336</guid>
					<description>That's ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s ridiculous.</p>
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