2) I, of course, agree that slavery is an abhorent violation of the great commandment. But the Bible seems to endorse it all over the place. Exodus is filled with rules on how to treat your slave, and none of it is very nice. (Read Exodus 21). And even in the New testament, Jesus is quoted speaking flippantly about slaves (1 Peter 2:18; Ephesians 6:5; Colossians 3:22; Ephesians 6:5-6).

This is a great example of the lack of “Absolute” truth in the Bible. There’s nothing absolute in this ambiguity. If God had a truth to tell us here, he missed his chance.

3&4) So is your position that just the New testament is inerrant, perfect truth? If not, how do you decide which things in the Old Testament still apply?

5) But see, to me, this is proof that the Bible ISN’T absolute, because it fails to give us clear direction here. You have read God say “Thou shall not kill”, and you think he’s talking about abortion. But he doesn’t say abortion. And while you fight abortion, you kill animals for food and clothing.

This isn’t absolute at all. This is murky and gray.

2) I, of course, agree that slavery is an abhorent violation of the great commandment. But the Bible seems to endorse it all over the place. Exodus is filled with rules on how to treat your slave, and none of it is very nice. (Read Exodus 21). And even in the New testament, Jesus is quoted speaking flippantly about slaves (1 Peter 2:18; Ephesians 6:5; Colossians 3:22; Ephesians 6:5-6).

This is a great example of the lack of “Absolute” truth in the Bible. There’s nothing absolute in this ambiguity. If God had a truth to tell us here, he missed his chance.

3&4) So is your position that just the New testament is inerrant, perfect truth? If not, how do you decide which things in the Old Testament still apply?

5) But see, to me, this is proof that the Bible ISN’T absolute, because it fails to give us clear direction here. You have read God say “Thou shall not kill”, and you think he’s talking about abortion. But he doesn’t say abortion. And while you fight abortion, you kill animals for food and clothing.

This isn’t absolute at all. This is murky and gray.

1. “hunt down witches and burn them at the stake”

You are correct in stating that the Bible is very clear about the fact the God says he doesn’t like Witchcraft, or witches. And this is one thing that wouldn’t be tolerated in a country that followed the Bible. But like I said before: I’m not the one saying this, this is the Bible, God is the one who gets to make the calls.

2. “as proof that God endorsed slavery”

See my post above for the verse that talks about rightly dividing the word of God. Slave owners that owned slaves had a bias toward dividing the Word of God in such a way that slavery was permitted. But the first commandment of God (Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself) directly contraticts slavery.Not only that, but the Bible does NOT ENDORSE slavery.

3. “the Bible sends a lot of mixed messages”
A. Divorce is OK, then Jesus says it’s not, compares it to Adultery

First of all, one example cannot be called a lot. Again, the Bible must be rightly divided. From the beginning of the world, God created marriage as between one man and one woman for life. The law of Moses, which was from God, allowed divorce for certian reasons. But today as Christians we are no longer under the Law of Moses, but under the Lordship of Jesus Christ, who very plainly tells us that divore is wrong, with a couple of exceptions. This isn’t a mixed message, this issue is very clearly spelled out through the Bible, you just have to study it.

4. “And adultery, God tells us in the Old Testament, is punishable by execution”

Like I said, we are no longer under the law, but under Jesus Christ our Savior. The law was a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ. God created marriage as between one man and one woman, for life.

5. “Add to this, the fact that some of the issues we’re discussing (like abortion) aren’t spoken of in the Bible.”

That one of the reasons why we know the Bible is true. It was written 3500-1900 years ago, but is still applicable today. The message of the Bible can be applied to any culture, and to any “new” thing that comes along in history. Like killing babies with Doctors. The Bible very clearly says that killing another human is wrong. Killing is unauthorized murder. God is the only one who can authorized the death of humans, and he has given guidelines for GOVERNMENTS, not individuals to follow. Killing unborn humans isn’t one of those catagories.

The next logical questionis: How do we know the Bible is true?

~Sparky

How, then, are you all so certain about these Absolute Truths?”

An excellent question.

First of all, “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.” Psalm 12:6

The word of God is pure.

Second. “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2:15

The word of God must be properly divided. That ability comes from studying the word of God, so that you can be workman for God. The end result is, “Rightly dividing”

Third. “As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” 2 Peter 3:16

There are hard things in the Bible to understand. That is why we have to study it. Andrew, there are answers to every argument you brought up about the Bible, and I will answer each of them in the next post.

The next logical question of course is: How do we know the Bible is true?

This is good, because this is where the heart of the matter of Tolerance lies. If the Bible is true then there are certain things as a people and government that we can’t tolerate. If the Bible is false, then we are free to come up with our own standard, and Christians are really wrong on our view of tolerance.

~Sparky

But let me ask you a question about your “Absolute Truth”. Christians in our country once used the same scriptures to argue that we need to hunt down witches and burn them at the stake. Christians once pointed to the scriptures as proof that God endorsed slavery. Add to this the fact that the Bible sends a lot of mixed messages: It tells us that divorce is okay, and then Jesus says it’s not okay, and he compares it to adultery. And adultery, God tells us in the Old Testament, is punishable by execution. Add to this, the fact that some of the issues we’re discussing (like abortion) aren’t spoken of in the Bible.

How, then, are you all so certain about these Absolute Truths?

That is your level of tolerance. Remember that we as Christains have tolerance, just not at the level that you currently have. We can’t tolerate as much as you do because we believe in Absolute Truth.

Andrew said: “Make them think about it if you wish, but don’t change the law to restrict their freedoms based on your choice of faith.”

In America we have a unique system (from history’s perspective) in that average people can influence our country’s direction.

Andrew, if there is a God that hates sin, then he will judge sin. The entire city of Sodom was destroyed, in part, for sodemy. Once the entire counry of Israel was sent into captivity, in part, because they were murdering their children by sacrifice. Note it was the entire population that suffered the consequence of the actions group did or allowed.

This being said, it is in Christians best intrest to not allow certain actions that God hates, because we don’t want to see our country destroyed.

Andrew said: “Let me ask this: What do you think is the chief difference between a nation like ours (where many religions and cultures live together in peace) and a country where religious and cultural conflicts erupt almost constantly?”

The reason is very simple: America was founded on the premise that CERTAIN rights were given by God to every human, and couldn’t be taken away by man. The right to BELIEVE what you want, and to worship in a way you want were part of that premise. However, the right to do whatever you want wasn’t part of that premise.

~Sparky